When I first heard about “Bad Time Zoo,” a collaborative album between Doomtree’s Sims and producer Lazerbeak, I couldn’t wait to hear it. When ‘Beak sent me the album to preview a couple of months back I didn’t stop listening to it for an entire week, and it’s remained on constant rotation ever since. Whether you like thumping beats, emotive lyrics, stylish delivery, it’s all present on this record. I’ve always been a big supporter of Doomtree, and the high quality of output that the crew supplies us with, but in my opinion this is one of their best releases yet.
I caught up with Sims and ‘Beak a few weeks ago to talk about the album which drops on the 15th of this month, and why you should pre-order it, as well as reflecting on Lazerbeak’s solo album, “Legend Recognize Legend,” and their recent nationwide tour.
What are you referring to with the title “Bad Time Zoo”?
Sims: Why is it called “Bad Time Zoo”? I don’t know to be honest, it was a line that I stumbled across when I was writing the song that’s actually now called “Bad Time Zoo,” it just happened. The album was originally called “The Veldt,” the reason I called it that is that all the animal imagery that appears in the album is intentional, it sort of plays to metaphors of human interaction. I feel like animals have characteristics or personality traits that are easy to assign like, “ok, these certain animals behave this way, and this way, and this way,” so I used those as metaphors for the way people interact. And after a few of my friends where like, “yeah we’re getting “Bad Time Zoo” tattoos,” it was sort of a moment that we decided we should probably call the album “Bad Time Zoo,” because it seemed that was a phrase that was catching more with people, so that’s why we chose “Bad Time Zoo.”
What is the veldt?
S: It’s a beltline that happens across the southern hemisphere where a lot of the big game is, like lions and zebras and things like that. And that’s what that is, its just a way to describe the environment.
Why did you originally intend to name the album after that?
S: To sort of set up the scenery for what we’re dealing with on the album conceptually.
The album has it’s own aesthetic that is brought together by the album cover and the animal imagery contained within it. The artwork in itself is pretty interesting; who created it, how does it work, and what was the concept for that?
S: Yeah it was, Adam Garcia who’s a really talented designer and illustrator I know, worked with me to concept the project and then he executed it and did it beautifully, and I think it looks amazing. And its all part of the same thing, like the album cuts apart, you can cut apart the artwork and fold pages into different shapes of animals and stuff like that, it sets up so there’s a diorama of sorts that you can build. So it’s all about tactile field, and scenery, and elements within the environment; so that’s sort of like the idea, the masks are these metaphors as well, it all kind of ties into the same thing.
Lazerbeak: I think from the beginning, like some of the first songs that we started making, lyrically, Sims had kind of this animal theme going, and then the music started to almost take on, with the percussion and stuff, kind of a jungle element and it did kind of sound like a zoo musically in a weird way. So I think from the jump we had this kind of animal theme and that just ties in with the artwork, and now with the music video, and stuff like that, it all kind of wraps it up.
S: Definitely. Yeah, some of the later beats contributed to the album definitely took on a feel that was congruent to the rest of the songs that we had initially created, “Future Shock” which is the first song on the album was one of the later additions to the album as far as the production and song-writing goes, and it just fit perfectly, so that’s why that’s there too.
To me “Burn It Down” kind of stood out as an obvious single choice, it sounds unlike anything I’ve ever heard from the Doomtree camp, was this the intention? What was the concept behind the track?
S: This was one of the first few songs actually made for this album. I went over to Beak’s house and he gave me this beat, and I was like are you kidding me! It sounded so crazy, so awesome, and I wrote it the same day that I got the beat. I don’t know it was just one of those moments; I was just sitting in my apartment looking out the window, and I used to live kind of by some warehouses and stuff, and I was listening to a Bob Dylan record earlier that day, and actually as odd as it sounds “Visions of Johanna,” that Bob Dylan song, is one of the inspirations for it even though it has nothing to do with that song; it was just in my head, and I was like yeah, thinking about some of the lyrics in that song. It’s basically a predator/ prey situation where there are a lot more disenfranchised people than truly fortunate people, and the difference between all of them is minimal, however all of us, all of them, continue to draw lines between them to divide them and separate themselves whether it’s racial relations, socioeconomic relations, gender relations, sexual-orientation relations all of those things, there are a lot of differences drawn between the groups but the bottom line is the common thread between them is that they are the disenfranchised, or the oppressed or whatever. And the reason that they don’t elevate themselves, I think, could be a lack of organisation, so it’s about organising then destroying the structures that create those lines between you, and the reasons that you’re held down, so that’s what that song is about.
And it’s also about drinking Scotch in a club.
Yeah, because as well as having a lot of depth, it also sounds like a club song. Which really goes with what you were saying last time, about getting a balance of style and content.
S: That’s awesome! You’re the first person to say it sounds like a club song.
L: That’s good. Musically, it was like one of those, sometimes you just happen to know when you’ve got one; and that was when it was down I was like, “Yeah, I got one.” And I remember playing that in a car before a Doomtree meeting, for Sims and Paper (Tiger) and the initial reaction whenever people start doing that (nods head) right away, that’s a good sign it’s usually going to get used. And a lot of times I struggle with breaking the beat down too far, and making a lot of different elements and stuff, like that to the point where it gets too cluttered or weird, but that one actually works where there’s a lot of different parts going on, and Sims tied it down with his lyrics and with the style, so it feels like this cohesive piece. But that’s one of my favourites that I’ve ever done so I’m happy that it’s the single.
S: That beat is ridiculous; all of the beats on this album are ridiculous. I mean that’s what I’ve been saying, I’ve said it in a few interviews so far, they’re like, “Well why should people listen to “Bad Time Zoo”? Why would they like it?” And I’m like, “Well, you could leave my rap out of it, and love this album.” If you don’t like my rap at all that’s cool, because you’re going to love this album, because the beats are just incredibly glorious, banging, dirty, like it covers so much ground sonically. I got the best beats that this dude has made to date, and I whored it down and made a bunch of shit (laughs.) So yeah, we are really proud of it and even the production on it is something I’m most proud of, and I had nothing to do with the production, I just love it, I think it’s beautiful.
(At Lazerbeak) So do you use samples on the album? Or is it all played on instruments? It’s difficult to tell…
L: It’s a combination of everything and its generally the samples get super chopped up and then played out almost like a keyboard would be then I add onto that with other instruments, and other keyboards, and stuff like that, so its kind of just this big mish-mash of all music. Bang!
Who directed the video for “Burn It Down,” and what’s the concept with that?
S: Isaac Gale and Dave Jensen made the video for me, and JoLynn Garnes edited and coloured it. It was a concept that I had originally that Isaac, Dave and I fleshed out into something do-able. And again it’s basically, the way that I described the song is the way I believe the video plays out. I believe that the video is a good representation visually of what I’m talking about in the song; basically breaking down the relationship between predator and prey, breaking down the relationship between prey and then what could happen if the prey painted banded together and they could take down the…err…wolves! Yeah, that’s what it is.
And who are the people behind the masks?
S: There’s a bunch of people, but that’s the beauty of it, is that there’s like a lot of cameos in it but everyone is underneath a mask so…
I was looking out to see if I could spot anyone.
S: There’s a bunch of cameos it’s just you know…
L: The majority of Doomtree is in it, our extended family basically…
S: There’s a ton of rappers in that video, and DJ’s and stuff, and my favourite thing about it was I hit ‘em up like, “You wanna be in this video?” And they were like, “Yeah man.” Then they get to this video and we’re like, “Put this mask on…”
L: No shine time!
S: But that’s my favourite part its like there’s a lot of people that are “famous” or whatever behind those masks, its pretty good.
One of my favourite songs on the album is “I Love My Girl,” it felt like a bold statement to make in a genre where everything about girls seems to fit into the category of either “womanising,” or “depressing girl song.” It was good to hear a positive track about females…
S: That was one of those moments on this record, that I feel like that was a true collaborative process, because I wrote the song and chorus to this beat that ‘Beak had, and he was like, “I don’t know if this will fit the album, but here,” And he gave it to me in a batch of beats, and when I’d usually get production from him I’d get like 5-10 at the same time and I’d write to a handful of them, and that was when I came up with that chorus and I was like, “I don’t know dude.” And I wrote two of choruses to it but one of them was trash and the other was the one on the song. But ‘Beak was like, “Nah its great, its totally great, you got to demo it.” And we demoed it at his house, and he played it for his wife, and she was like, “That is amazing!” I was nervous about it, because it’s kind of a leap or whatever, but my guy he definitely wrote for it, he wrote for me there!
L: And it seems to somehow, in the sequencing, work to a point where it doesn’t feel like it sticks out too much, and I’m excited, I think that obviously girls are going to like that song, but I feel like its important that we recognise feelings that we are feeling at the time, because Sims is engaged now, he loves his girl, why not write about it?
S: (Laughs) The weddings off!
L: It’s not hip-hop!
You’ve been pushing the pre-orders recently (and it is the last few days to do so now.) Dessa posted on your site a while ago about how important it is that fans pre-order your albums. Why is it important to buy in advance rather than waiting for it to be released?
L: I mean basically, we are musicians and artists that were kind of forced into creating our own business in order to get our art out there. So we’re a rap crew, we are rappers and producers, but we’re also businessmen and women, and owners of a label that we’ve made because nobody else was putting our stuff out. So this is how we make money is like; the pre-order goes directly to Doomtree instead of like the store taking a cut and things like that, so all that money comes right back to us and we get it in advance so we can fund projects that we’re currently working on, like Mike is right now recording a new album, Dessa’s starting to work on an album so things like that you need the money up front, so this kind of helps funnel in, every album that we put out immediately begins to start to pay for a new album that’s in the works basically.
S: And we’ve never taken cuts from the business side of Doomtree; mostly because there’s not a lot of money…
L: There’s no cuts to take (laughs)
S: Yeah exactly! So it helps, we recorded our album with money generated from the Dessa album, and this will hold true for Mike, or P.O.S, or Dessa, or Cecil Otter, or whoever’s recording currently, so whoever orders “Bad Time Zoo” will help fund the next project. So I’d say even if you don’t like Lazerbeak and I, but you like Dessa, buy our album!
L: Or Dessa is not coming out!
S: There’s no way Dessa will not be able to record!
Pre-ordering the album also gets you some extras that you won’t get if you buy it when it’s released. What is available with the pre-order packages?
S: There’s two different packages, one is the standard package which has a autographed poster, autographed copy of the CD, a box-cutter which you can use to cut apart the art as I explained earlier, and it comes with two exclusive songs; if you order the pre-order package you get two songs which don’t appear anywhere else. And you can do a Ustream with me, and enter to win a couple of the masks that appeared in the “Burn It Down” video, you can win one of the masks that was actually in the video. And in the deluxe package is everything that was in the standard package, plus a collectors box, and a t-shirt, which is exclusive to the pre-order package, it’s a colorway that won’t appear again. So its just ways to incentivise people ordering in advance, and helping us out, and support. The idea is not to profit a bunch of money, the idea is to bring the money back in so we can get started on the next project, and so if we offer a bunch of freebies hopefully people are interested.
So when was “Bad Time Zoo” actually recorded?
S: We’ve been recording it for about two and a half years.
L: It’s kind of been on and off. It’s been like different sessions, the initial session was maybe like a couple of summers ago, and we made maybe like eight songs, and we take those and figure out what else was needed and which ones didn’t work. So we probably, all in all, made like twice the amount of songs that were on the record, and then we just kind of slowly picked away at it or put things out on different things and we eventually end up with the core.
S: Yeah on “False Hopes 14” the songs “Birds and Earthworms” and “Pay No Mind” were both initially recorded for this album, “Coup for Kings” was originally recorded for this album, the two B-side songs that were on the 12-inch were initially recorded for this album, and we still have 8 or 9 that are unreleased at this point. So we created a surplus of material, only to pick the best, I was really critical of everything the whole way down maybe to a fault, definitely to a fault, I was super-critical of all the songs that we were recording and I never felt that it was done, but its done.
L: Its done!
S: We put it together in June, this album and the current configuration was done in June 2010, and we’ve been waiting like we had the Paper Tiger, “Made Like Us” release, and the “Legend Recognize Legend” (Lazerbeak’s solo album) release, and then we went on tour and it was winter and stuff, so we chose February.
So was “Bad Time Zoo” being recorded around the same time as “Legend Recognize Legend”?
L: Yeah kind of in between, parts of it were done before that, parts of it were right around that time, and parts of it were a little bit after as well.
S: This guy totally showed me up, showed me how to make a record in a two months, and a brilliant one at that! He was just like, “Oh right well if we’re not going to finish, then I’m just going to crack open this legendary album.” And no bullshit, no whatever because he’s sitting right next to me, but that was my favourite album of last year, the “Legend Recognize Legend” album, and its an album that’s going to stay with me for a long time, it really means a lot to me.
But all that aside, he did it just to upstage me, like, “Oh you want to make a glorious, amazing, album, let me show you how its done son! Boom! Two months, and I get like 500 musicians to record on all these songs.”
L: But I am going to be in debt my whole life for it, that’s the downside, no ones buying that one!
Do you think that there was any crossover with the sounds, influences or themes of the albums?
L: I’d say its pretty different, I approached “Legend Recognize Legend” in a very small time frame, and it was a very specific type of music that I was doing; it was a lot poppier and a lot more keyboard driven I think. I think a few of the things that might correlate are some of the percussion elements, there are a lot of hand drums and stuff like that still on both records. But for the most part I kind of focussed them as very different projects; that mine would be this weird solo album I’ve always talked about doing but never did, and that Sims was going to be, for me, return of the lava-banger mentality, where it was like the best rap beats I’ve ever made all compiled onto the same album with my guy spitting hot fire all over it.
S: (Laughs) Yeah, sonically they’re really different and topically they’re really different. But for you (Lazerbeak) it probably felt like an awesome release, that what I feel about that record, it just kind of sort of like, to me, came out of no where because when he said he was going to work on an album I was like, “Cool.” And I figured it was going to be beats with a few guest rappers or whatever, but what happened was something entirely different, which is not what I was expecting at all. When he sent over the demos I was like, “Oh you meant like that.” And I think it was great because, and I’m answering for you now obviously, but he used to be in a rock band that were pretty successful nationally here called Plastic Constellations, and that sort of dissolved like probably about three years ago, but it was a band that you guys had been in for twelve years or something?
L: Yeah.
S: Twelve years it was like his focus for over a decade and then Doomtree was happening while he was in TPC, but when TPC sort of went on hiatus or broke up or however you put it, Doomtree became the focus. But this was a beautiful way to like mix the two accepting something entirely new and different, like this was a third direction entirely its not all hip-hop and its not rock, I felt like it was an awesome release for you to make that piece of music happen.
L: Yeah it was necessary for me because I think I was starting to get burnt out, I always had the rock band, and then I could make beats so I always had the balance there, and when it became just the beats after a three year period, I felt like I’d lost my voice a little bit, so it was nice to kind of like separate myself, do that, and then come back re-energised to get back on the beats.
S: When’s the next one in the works?
L: The next one is not in the works anytime soon.
S: Whaaat?
L: I’ve been thinking about making a lava-banger album which is just an instrumental record which is just like a minute and a half just like, not lame instrumental records, just straight-up heaters, like 20 heaters in a 40 minute period. But we got artists to put out here!
S: I’m waiting for “Legend Been Recognized,” the follow up album from the god himself, Lazerbeak.
And did you sing backing on a few of the tracks from “Bad Time Zoo”?
L: I did a little bit on like a couple of tracks.
Did you ever do that previous to “Legend Recognize Legend”?
L: I don’t think I really had actually. On P.O.S’s first record I sang a hook before, but I’d never like sang in the background. It was the first time with Sims that when we were tracking it was like, “Hey ‘Beak, why don’t you jump in there and double up these vocals, or sing a little something?” So like on “One Dimensional Man” I’m in there a little bit, I think I’m in the hook on “Love My Girl.”
S: Yeah you’re totally on “Love My Girl,” you’re on “In My Sleep,” you’re on maybe 4 or 5 tracks.
L: It was all pretty like spontaneous in the studio like, “Hey what can we do to fill this out.” And either me or Joe the engineer who we usually work with, would jump in and try to add a different voice in there.
So what projects are you currently working on, or what do you have coming up?
L: It’s just promoting the shit out of this album.
S: You know, ‘Beak is contributing to the P.O.S album that’s being recorded this month and next, and the Mike Mictlan album, and then probably the Dessa album, and probably some Cecil Otter stuff in there too. So as far as me getting any beats from ‘Beak I’ll probably be waiting four or five years from now.
L: It’s going to be a couple of months that’s for certain.
S: So that’s where you’re up to…
L: I’m on P.O.S and Mike record right now pretty hard, I’m going back to work on those right now, and then Dessa is starting to gear up. So those three, and I’m working on a project with Cecil that we are going to try and do collaboratively, but that’s just in the beginning stages, so a lot of things that are in the early in development, but staying super busy for sure. Luckily I’m able to work with all the emcees which is nice because its kind of full circle. By the time I get back around Sims will be gearing up, and it will be time to kick him some beats, it just kind of keeps happening.
S: It better go around quick because I’m in the studio next week! Nah, actually I’ve been thinking about getting back in sooner than later, hopefully I’ll have another album out in the next eighteen months. That’s the goal, hopefully we have a master done this time next year, so that means I’m back in the studio quick, because I work sloooow.
L: We learned a lot from this one in just the process, and you could literally spend an eternity making an album because you could always change something. And I think we both learned, it will better us in the future, because we’ll be quicker with it and probably wont second-guess ourselves as much, and just kick it out. Because more than anything now after making “Bad Time Zoo,” believe, we make good shit man, I’m not afraid to say it, we make good stuff so we’ll just put it out.
You’ve mentioned a number of projects in the works there, which one should we expect to see released first?
L: It’s a good question.
S: its one of the albums that are currently being recorded, it’s one of the four other rappers on Doomtree that I would guess would be the next release. We are talking about starting production on the next Doomtree album, but that probably wont be recorded until late this year/ mid this year, so it will be one of those 5 projects is next at the moment we have no other release date booked so it depends on who finishes first.
L: It’s a race to the finish usually; whoever turns in their masters first gets the next slot.
S: I would imagine that we are probably going to be having a fall release this year, of whoever is next, but there’s nothing coming up in the Spring or Summer at the moment, so we’ll probably fill that in with something good, you know, we have a bunch of tracks. That’s the thing that I’ve learned from this project at least, is you can’t have too many tracks, you can have all the tracks and figure out what to do with them later.
You’ve just recently finished your first tour as a crew, how was that experience?
L: For everyone yeah, it was great man, the shows were great, in the past we’ve all gone our separate ways and shows have been good or they’ve been bad or whatever, but this was like a full on five week tour and the turn out was great. It was cool for me because I don’t really get to go out that much. It was cool to see how much we’ve affected people throughout the country. I don’t really think about that when I’m stuck in my basement for half my life, I don’t get to see the affects it has on people and the joy that it can bring to people, not just like ourselves, so that was very powerful for me to be able to witness that. And to be able to actually talk to the fans every night made me realise that what we’re doing is a little bit bigger than I thought it was maybe, and more important almost. And then it was also a great opportunity for the seven of us I think to spend every second with each other for five weeks because even though we all live in the same city for the most-part there’s a million distractions we don’t really get a chance to hang out that often, we do business and we do music, and there’s not a whole lot of time necessarily just to kick it with each other, and if there is, there’s always a lot of people around, so I think it was nice to kind of reconnect with my people, and just spend some quality time with just us. And I think across the board that reinvigorated us on a friendship level as much as a music-making level because I think those do two go hand in hand a lot of times.
S: Yeah it’s always hard to spend time, because people have their lives to live here and so outside of our meetings and recording it’s tough to find time to hang out. So it was a good time that way as well, and it’s good to check in and realise we’re actually doing well, like it doesn’t seem like it, because you are in your apartment or whatever and your life is the same as it was yesterday, but like more people read your interview and know your name, and you don’t realise that because you feel exactly the same as beforehand. Like we’re all really grounded about where we are, and who we are, so we don’t really let a lot of distractions in, because I think they’re just that, like when you start to build an ego about yourself in an unhealthy way, like when you start to believe you’re famous and important, it really kind of ruins a lot of your art. If you have an ego as far as like I’m have confidence in myself and believe I make good music, that helps your art, but if you are focusing on like fame and fans, then you’re not really doing yourself justice or a favour.
You finished up the tour with your annual “Doomtree Blowout” in Minneapolis. Was that bigger than usual, and was it a good way to end the tour?
L: It was more legendary than usual, that’s for certain. We did two nights at First Avenue, which is our big venue here, and we’ve only ever attempted one night, we’ve sold it out in the prior years, one night, but this year they asked us to try two to see if we could bring that many more people out. So the first night was incredible, sold-out, the second ended up being the biggest blizzard in Minnesota in the past 20 years.
S: It was crazy, the city was shut down, the buses where shut down, all public transportation shut down, taxi’s shut down, and they even shut down the plough, because the snow ploughs were getting stuck, because there was like two feet of snow. And still like 500 kids came down, I don’t know how they got there.
L: We almost didn’t make it, Stef (P.O.S) didn’t even show up until after doors, my whole band couldn’t make it so we just did the songs with just me, but still 500/600 kids, a lot of them walked through that shit, so that was a real powerful moment that like, “Wow, these kids still came out.” And just for us too that, “Hey we braved this like, every other venue in the city shut down and didn’t have their shows that night, and we were the only one that stayed open.” And the following night we did like a make up for people that couldn’t make it and another 600 people came out and partied with us again, so being able to do three nights at this legendary venue, that obviously the Prince stigma and all that stuff, it was a big local achievement and something I’ll never forget.
S: It’s the same venue that Purple Rain was shot at, that’s what the whole Prince thing was about.
L: It was a great way to end the whole thing, by the third night when everything was over everyone was exhausted…
S: And ready to stop playing rap shows!
L: But it was a great way to end it.
Check out the last interview I did with Sims
Check out the last interview I did with Lazerbeak
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